Parishioner Can’t Begin To Explain How Important All The Symbolism Is In Tridentine Mass

July 31, 2014 by  
Filed under Parish Life

Atlanta, GA–Local Tridentine Mass-goer Desmond Wilson reported to friends today that it was difficulty and nearly impossible for him to even begin to explain all of the subtle and nuanced symbolism contained in the Latin Mass.

“It’s like…I mean, everything…literally everything means something,” Wilson whispered to friends during their first ever Tridentine Mass. “And all of those ‘somethings’ are so important. That’s why I prefer the Latin Mass over the Novus Ordo. Not that the Novus Ordo isn’t valid or anything. It’s just that, the Latin Mass is so much more reverent and stuff that…I mean, literally every move the priest makes is important and represents something from scripture.”

Friends of Wilson, who are only the latest in those who have been lectured on the utter importance and paramount significance of everything done in the Latin Mass, told EOTT that they were all “moved” by how everything he explained seemed to have some deeper meaning.

“At one point, the priest started sneezing,” said longtime friend Anna Thomas. “Des pointed out that the priest had sneezed seven times. He said he did that because there are seven deadly sins, and that sneezing was symbolic of him expelling all the mortal sins from his soul.”

Wilson later went on to say that even genuflecting was symbolic, whispering, “Look how the priest just genuflected…see how his right knee was on the ground? Yeah, and what’s on the ground? Dirt. That recalls Genesis 3:19…‘For dust you are, and to dust you will return.’ And the knee is also pointed toward Christ on the altar. Now the knee is a very strong part of the body, and Christ to whom the knee is pointed is also very strong. If you noticed, at one point during the genuflection, his thigh was positioned vertically, of course, up and down, pointing both at the earth where Christ came to redeem us and pointing toward Heaven where he later ascended.”

At press time, Wilson is explaining how essential it is that the priest accidentally tripped on his way up to the altar, saying, “That was very symbolic of how we’re all called to approach the Lord with confidence even when we stumble along the way.”

  • T. Audrey Glamour

    Hey, I thought this blog was supposed to be satire!

    What happened?

  • Douglas Bonneville

    😐

  • Marissa Nichols

    lol!

  • Gabe Jones

    I’m not sure if this is amazing and 100% true or slightly offensive.

  • Jeanne

    Tongue in cheek humor…

  • Paul Schumann

    Hehe I better not see any fellow latin mass goers flipping out over this. Nothing like a bit of silliness at one’s own expense now and then.

  • CradleRevert

    I’m having trouble determining whether I should be offended by this or not.

  • Seekingtobehuman

    It’s the same with the Byzantine Divine Liturgy…I mean, it’s just so much more reverent. Everything literally means something, usually something that I make up that kind of sounds good or something I heard on Catholic radio.

    • SmellsBells

      The EF Mass and the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom are worlds apart, beginning with the fact that one has always been celebrated in the vernacular.

      • Seekingtobehuman

        What do you mean by the EF Mass?

        • David Standeven

          He means the Tridentine Rite. And, yes, the Byzantine and the Tridentine Roman rites have enough similarities that one can tell they fed off each other a lot in their early development (mass of the presanctified, the kyrie, “Let my prayer rise like incense before you…”, etc.).

          Check out the Byzantine Good Friday and the Tridentine Good Friday pre-1955 to see what I mean.

          • Seekingtobehuman

            Oh okay, lol, I was just trying to point out how I felt the joke also applied to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy because, being Byzantine, I hear comments all the time about how “it’s just so much more reverent” or people making up bullcrap symbolism, such as what this article was satirically pointing to as happening in the Tridentine rite.

            Differences and similarities in their actual content aside, both the Tridentine rite and the Divine Liturgy share a common struggle in attracting Catholics who don’t *really* understand what’s going on and tend to add their own exegeses about the rites based on little else than their own feelings. It’s not the worst problem in the world, of course, just something worth noticing and fixing.

          • David Standeven

            Agreed. The way to fix it would be to help educate them on what everything in the liturgies really mean. That way, their love of it would would be fully realized.

            The thing is, you need people who know something about liturgy. There’s way too many neoscholastic wannabe Thomists and too few real liturgists in the church (which is a pity, as liturgy has always been the “First Doctrine”).

          • Seekingtobehuman

            I completely agree.

          • antigon

            Plus of course it would help immensely were the Clericalist Mass abrogated.

  • Anthony MT Fisher

    I was trying to think of something to reply, but now… http://youtu.be/dbDcEc0LRCY Nicely done, EOTT

  • Vincent

    Wilson seems to know his catechism better than most novus ordo parishoners… I’d bet 99 % of them can’t even name the seven cardinal sins. While trying to make fun of traditionalists you actually put the pie in the face of the “New” Theology catechists where doctrine doesn’t matter and Jesus is just a good guy.

    • SmellsBells

      The fact that you used the phrase “novus ordo parishoners” infers strongly that you’re a complete asshole. How’s that work for you?

      • Vincent

        It shows your complete lack of charity. Charity is one of the three theological virtues you weren’t taught in your catechism “light” class. An Ad Hominem attack is a weak counter argument, it always shows desperation. Pax 🙂

        • Lee Bacchi

          And you’re first post is charitable?!?!?

          • Vincent

            You’re? I think it’s ‘your’. Sorry, Lee, that typo is on you this time! My original comment isn’t an ad hominem attack, I’m commenting on the problem of poor catechesis, of which all in my generation suffer.

          • SmellsBells

            You’re (correct usage) simply underscoring the fact that you’re (once more) an asshole…

          • keith marino

            I serve and thus attend both the new rite (Novus Ordo) and the old rite (Vetus Ordo). That makes me, all at the same time, both a Vetus Ordo parishioner and a Novus Ordo Parishioner. Somehow, through it all, I still don’t wish ill will toward myself. Pax Christi

          • T. Audrey Glamour

            You keep using Latin! Maybe “certain people” feel threatened.

        • SmellsBells

          Absolutely not. You are a dissident. You divide people within the Church. You have set yourself as the arbiter of what is good, what is bad and what is “better” when that’s God’s job. In short, you bring negativity and misery to the Church.

          The fact you mentioned an ad hom attack after using a label like “novus ordo parishoners” also proves you’re a hypocrite as well as an asshole.

          • Vincent

            Your lack of charity is only surpassed by more examples of your lack of charity. Don’t be silly, I used ‘Novus ordo parishioners’ because the article above uses the same language. Read it again and see. It’s latin for ‘New Order’ there is nothing derogatory about it. Even when Pope Francis refers to the Tridentine mass as Vetus Ordo, (latin for ‘Old Order’) I didn’t see any traditional catholics make a stink about it. Be reasonable. And if you can’t show others an iota of respect, then be mindful of your avatar which shows the Blessed Virgin and Our Savior. Profanity is that which belongs outside the temple, not inside. Goodbye

          • David Standeven

            Jeez, people. Calm down! A little more charity on a Catholic website?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U6sWqfrnTs

          • SmellsBells

            The “lack of charity” began with your use of “novus ordo parishoners.”

          • David Standeven

            What are you, five years old? I specifically asked everyone to stop arguing and you just keep going.

          • SmellsBells

            You don’t mean anything to me. I was responding to mrs. novus ordo’s latest attack.

          • David Standeven

            I’d like to point out that I grew up in the traddie movement (including the less than approved sections). “Novus Ordo” was not necessarily always used as an attack (I refuse to use the phrase because of how it was used in SSPX churches, as in “Big Bad Spooky Novus Ordo”). Many FSSP and Ecclesia Dei group churchgoers use the term but will still attend a Paul VI mass.
            Frankly, you’re the one who flew off the handle. The guy said “novus ordo” and you immediately assumed it was an attack.

          • SmellsBells

            “Woden325” hit the nail on the head when they posted: “…using the phrase “Novus Ordo parishioners” is a pretty good signal that
            nothing that follows it will be either correct or charitable.” Just this morning at the coffee social following Mass someone tried to engage me in conversation. He began with “…NO Mass…” I immediately excused myself and then avoided him — he was signalling that he was ignorant and/or bigoted and I simply want nothing to do with such people. “Frankly”, just use the terms OF/EF unless you WANT to offend others.

          • David Standeven

            I think you need to take a breather. Many good people call it the “novus ordo” out of habit, not malice. They will even attend one if there isn’t a Tridentine mass available.

            I personally call them:
            1. The Tridentine (i.e. from Trent) Mass/Rite
            2. The Pauline Mass/Rite

            This is a very good way to not offend anyone unintentionally. To call it the “EF/OF” phrasing is silly to anyone with any liturgical knowledge. They are not two forms of one rite (the way the 1570 Tridentine and the 1911 Tridentine would be) but two different rites entirely. Different office, kalendar, liturgy, etc.

            The Roman church has two rites. This is fact.

          • SmellsBells

            You’re wrong. The fact that you continue to whine about this matter suggests you deliberately want to offend others. Nothing wrong with using the terms Pauline/Tridentine but most don’t. That’s clearly why Pope Benedict XVI coined (and requested the use of) OF/EF during his promulgation of Summorum Pontificum. You comment “To call it the ‘EF/OF’ phrasing is silly to anyone with any liturgical knowledge.” is downright obtuse considering who coined the two phrases. It also once again underscores your desire to offend others. You can tap-dance all you like but you’re not fooling anyone.

          • David Standeven

            Offend? Never. Educate? Absolutely.

            To know more about liturgy than a 20th/21st century pontiff is not difficult (look at what Pius X did to the breviary and Pius XII abominably did to Holy Week in 1955).

            If there’s nothing wrong with the terminology I use, then what’s the issue? I don’t care if you use “EF/OF”, I’m just pointing out it isn’t technically correct.

          • SmellsBells

            Don’t lie to yourself — you’re not educating anyone. All you are doing is offending. You’re wrong to suggest there’s nothing wrong with using the label “novus ordo parishioner.” You’re also not “technically correct” (LOL!) The only positive about people like you using invectives like that in public is that it’s an immediate trigger to begin ignoring you. Go ahead and keep spinning — you’re simply driving yourself deeper and deeper into the muck of ignorance and bigotry.

          • David Standeven

            I never said there is nothing wrong with using the term. It is, however, uncharitable for you to fly off the handle and assume the term is always intended to be derogatory.

            “BIGOTRY is an incapacity to conceive seriously the alternative to a proposition.” – G.K. Chesterton

            Where have I been guilty of that?

            Why are you assuming the worst of the posters here (“you deliberately want to offend others”… WTF?) ? I think there is something very wrong here either spiritually or mentally.
            I will pray for your soul as I pray for my own fallen one, my beloved fellow sinner.

          • keith marino

            I serve and thus attend both the new rite (Novus Ordo) and the old rite (Vetus Ordo). That makes me, all at the same time, both a Vetus Ordo parishioner and a Novus Ordo Parishioner. Somehow, through it all, I still don’t wish ill will toward myself. Pax Christi…

          • SmellsBells

            Bull manure. There’s absolutely no such thing as a “Vetus Ordo parishioner and a Novus Ordo Parishioner.” You’re struggling to create a division where there is none. Very unhealthy.

          • A.P. Hill

            Ah, upvoting your own comments – that will convince everyone that you are correct!

          • SmellsBells

            Keep tap-dancing… You have already shown that you’re both a bigot and a hypocrite…

          • SmellsBells

            You’re wrong. You’re a divisive individual. FWIW, “Mass” is always capitalized.

        • SmellsBells

          Your comments show that you’re a bigoted asshole.

      • woden325

        While I disagree with your word choice, I agree that using the phrase “Novus Ordo parishioners” is a pretty good signal that nothing that follows it will be either correct or charitable. It smacks of lengthening one’s tassels and widening one’s phylacteries.

        • SmellsBells

          I really appreciate the contents of your posting and I do agree with you completely. My use of that invective was very purposeful — I meant to offend. I wanted to show “Vincent” that he doesn’t have license to offend other Catholics with labels like “novus ordo parishoners.”

          Using the term “novus ordo” in this day and age is telegraphing the fact that you’re a bigot — you have nothing worth listening to…

          • PureCatholic

            A priest(if you know what that is) once said that if people called him a bigot he would agree with them. He said “yes I am a bigot” this was philosophy teacher at a seminary. I go to Latin mass three times a week and even though I have nothing against the “novus ordo” people I tend to find in the a more Liberal Lifestyle. I am going to go out on a limb here but you probably; are or want to be a Eucharistic Minister, you probably agree that Catholic schools should have GSA’s, and you love the idea of singing Kubaya in front of the audience( excuse me, I meant to say congregation it kinda just slipped out…)

          • Kevin McAuley

            I so agree Pure. I finally found a church that had a nice traditional priest, and because of pressure from the congregation, they got him moved. He would SING (chant really, but the complaint was signing) because he just wanted to hear himself. So pretentious! and he insisted on wearing black vestments for funerals, it was so depressing. Those are quotes from people. His sermons were so preachy and he actually tried to say that homosexual acts were sinful. Yup. They actually complained about that. And yes the lady complaining the loudest was a “Eucharistic minister” even though that term is banned by canon law for anyone but the priest. I attend both tridentine and NO (my daughter has trouble with the incense), I love the latin so much more. The congregation is ACTUALLY reverent. No one is running out after communion there.

          • Liberty

            Proud much? Pride is a sin, you know. Try some humility.

          • PureCatholic

            No offence but if you could kindly explain in which way I was prideful then it would help me as I seek “humility” #loginowneye

          • SmellsBells

            You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re talking smack.

          • PureCatholic

            Is it that I am talking smack or you have no clue what I’m talking about because you (……#gocrytoyourmother….#Iamaloser….#wahwahwah…..)maybe you just don’t understand????

          • keith marino

            I serve and thus attend both the new rite (Novus Ordo) and the old rite (Vetus Ordo). That makes me, all at the same time, both a Vetus Ordo parishioner and a Novus Ordo Parishioner. Somehow, through it all, I still don’t wish ill will toward myself. Pax Christi.

          • SmellsBells

            There’s no distinction. Trying to create one is divisive.

          • antigon

            Sorry – & in no way proposing any invalidity in the NO or want of devotion among those who attend &/or prefer it – but pretending there’s no distinction is simply – a pretense.
            *
            The vetus ordo, with the support of the faithful, was an organic development of the liturgy over centuries. The NO was cobbled together by a committee of (at best) dubious prelates & imposed on the faithful who in no way sought it.
            *
            It’s validity (just, thanks to Ottaviani) survived: but not least among the reasons for this imposition was – for no doctrinal reason, but solely as a cult-like end in itself – to trumpet clericalism & clerical power.
            *
            Thus the most accurate designation of the NO, in fact, is: the Clericalist Mass.
            *
            And it should be abrogated, a position every Catholic is free to hold, & every intelligent Catholic obliged to.

          • Commodore Windsock

            Lighten up Babycakes! It’s satire.

    • Lee Bacchi

      I think its the seven capital sins and the four cardinal virtues, Vincent.

      • Vincent

        Yes, I agree. Mea culpa 🙂

        • T. Audrey Glamour

          And you are using Latin, you Traddy you!

    • PureCatholic

      lol Awsome!!!!!!!

  • Philippa Martyr

    Is that James Earl Jones saying Mass in that photo?

    • Lee Bacchi

      Yes, he’s prepping for a role in a new movie!

  • Michael

    i could introduce you to a priest who does a great satire of the new mass. its more sad than funny though.

  • David Standeven

    I’m going to put in my 2 cents as someone who was raised in the Tridentine Mass and now attends a Byzantine church.

    This article is spot on hilarious. It highlights a lot of the recent fans of the Tridentine rite with Pauline rite backgrounds (I find “novus ordo” a stupid term and the “EF/OF” labels quite inaccurate and pretentious). Many of them go on and on about how much better and more reverent the TR is – buying as many mantillas and Baronius ’62 missals as they can afford – without understanding jack about the ancient Roman Rite.

    As for the Byzantine rite, it is actually much closer to the Old Roman Rite (i.e. before Pius XII tinkered with it) than anything else as far as text goes. The Medieval method of saying the Tridentine mass involved much more participation from the faithful (such as singing the responses) than is seen in most Latin Mass parishes today (‘Low Mass’ as the main mass of the day was a tolerated abuse that didn’t really catch on until the 19th century). Also, the Holy Week rites of the two are strikingly similar.

    Overall, excellent article! It would seem that the humor is too subtle for some to grasp.

    • SmellsBells

      EF/OF came directly from Pope Benedict XVI. It makes no difference what you think of the labels.

      Have you ever actually been to an Eastern Divine Liturgy? To suggest it’s closer to the EF rather than the OF is laughable. The historical use of the vernacular in the East and the greater roles or participation of the laity in the OF and DL make your comments very suspect.

      • David Standeven

        Au contraire… I attend a Byzantine Divine Liturgy every week and have done so ever since I was sickened by the nasty politics and the outright apostates in the Roman patriarchate.
        I was raised in the Tridentine Rite, so I know what I’m talking about.

        Get over it.

      • David Standeven

        Also, you need to realize that I am making a clear distinction between the real Tridentine rite and not the 1962 edition butchery promulgated by the $$PX.

        The true Tridentine rite and the Byzantine rite were practically brother/sister rites that developed together and fed off each other immensely. Their Holy Week rituals are testament to this.

        http://theradtrad.blogspot.com/2014/04/roman-and-byzantine-triduum-repost-with.html

      • antigon

        Not laughable. What the EF & Eastern have in common & in contradistinction to no few OF Clericalist examples, is that rarely if ever are the former two celebrated without profound reverence.

  • Viterbo Fangirl

    Was I on Candid Camera? Because I work at a Catholic bookstore and I swear I’ve been on the receiving end of that conversation three times this week…

  • Lee Bacchi

    Thank you, Amalarius of Metz!!

  • Mara319

    Wow! Look at the size of those altar cards! So big!

    • Well, they symbolize the greatness of the Lord, about whom we read: “Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out
      heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a
      measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a
      balance?” (Is. 40:12)

      Also, the really BIG one between the two little ones represents the Lord himself on his throne, surrounded by two cherubs, as Scripture says: “thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.” (Ps. 80:2)

      • Mara319

        Thanks, Benedict XVI – very enlightening!
        So, what’s the story behind the three-branch candelabras (instead of the usual three separate candlesticks on either side?)

  • Michael Leggett

    Snarktitude in the Highest!

  • William Fuller

    As a new Catholic, I am very saddened to observe the venom being spit from one Catholic to another on this forum.